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Why Armor games not Allow MochiBot?

TaykronGames
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 124 days ago)

The ADS and MochiCoins not problem, but Mochibot not affect to the game. ¿? Somebody know the reason?

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Beno
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 124 days ago)

Costa Rica CR

They have concerns over COPPA compliancy and privacy issues for their users. It's not just mochibot it's 3rd party services with few exceptions - no ads, no analytics etc.

Why Armor games not Allow MochiBot?

bob
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago) edited 4 years 123 days ago

United States US

That's incorrect. ArmorGames is not COPPA compliant, read their terms and conditions: http://armorgames.com/page/terms-and-conditions

This Site is offered and made available only to users thirteen (13) years of age or older. If you are not yet 13 years old or the required greater age for certain features, please discontinue using the Site immediately, or if for any reason, you do not agree with all of the terms and conditions contained in this Agreement, please discontinue using the Site immediately because by using or attempting to use the Site, you certify that you are at least 13 years of age (or other required greater age for certain features, where applicable) and meet any other eligibility requirements of the Site.

They don't allow third party services only because developers let them get away with it, they aren't doing it for any sort of legal compliance.

Why Armor games not Allow MochiBot?

Beno
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago) edited 4 years 123 days ago

Costa Rica CR

Dan has specifically cited COPPA concerns as a/the reason when he did the dev chat over at FGL.

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oscardog
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago)

United Kingdom GB

Originally posted by 5minutesoff Dan has specifically cited COPPA concerns as a/the reason.

Isn't that protection for children?

How exactly is MochiBot going to harm children? Automatically use some hax to start a webcam feed?

Furthermore armour games could easily check if there is any third party shiznaw before they host it/use reliable developers. It's seems a bit of a silly rule/reason imo.

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Beno
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago)

Costa Rica CR

It's about not collecting personally identifiable information for children, or making parents aware of when/what you do it for.

http://www.coppa.org/coppa.htm

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bob
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago)

United States US

Their terms of service say if you are under 13, get off our site. COPPA only applies to children under the age of 13. Either his terms of service is wrong or he is.

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oscardog
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago) edited 4 years 123 days ago

United Kingdom GB

Originally posted by bob Their terms of service say if you are under 13, get off our site. COPPA only applies to children under the age of 13. Either his terms of service is wrong or he is.

I believe that is an...

Epic Fail

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Beno
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago) edited 4 years 123 days ago

Costa Rica CR

I don't really understand it either tbh but it's his choice ultimately, it's his site and it's very valuable so I can see why he'd want to control what 3rd party services are operating on it.

There are valid reasons not to use 3rd party services, it can add dependencies and it's more stuff to load/process. It would be quite awesome to get ads happening on his site, my game did a 1/2 a million views there heh.

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bob
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago)

United States US

Originally posted by 5minutesoff I don't really understand it either tbh but it's his choice ultimately, it's his site and it's very valuable so I can see why he'd want to control what 3rd party services are operating on it.

Exactly, but he is being dishonest when he says that it's because the site is COPPA compliant.

There are valid reasons not to use 3rd party services, it can add dependencies and it's more stuff to load/process. It would be quite awesome to get ads happening on his site, my game did a 1/2 a million views there heh.

And if you don't have third party analytics on his site, the numbers are whatever he tells you they are. MochiBot for example doesn't really add any dependencies. It's completely asynchronous and if the servers are down it just doesn't send data. The overhead is negligible.

Why Armor games not Allow MochiBot?

Beno
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago)

Costa Rica CR

Exactly, but he is being dishonest when he says that it's because the site is COPPA compliant.

Whatever reason he gives us doesn't really matter.

And if you don't have third party analytics on his site, the numbers are whatever he tells you they are. MochiBot for example doesn't really add any dependencies.

The numbers on his site really only matter if he's giving performance bonuses and Daniel's far too good to developers to do anything funny there.

The dependency issue is bigger than mochibot, if he lets 3rd party services in then he's got to vet each one that appears and make sure they can't negatively impact the game, aren't collecting sensitive data etc. Then there'll be the homegrown leaderboards and whatever tied to $5 hosting accounts people really think are 'unlimited'.

He doesn't really get anything for doing it but he does risk his users experience if he does it wrong.

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bob
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago)

United States US

Originally posted by 5minutesoff

Exactly, but he is being dishonest when he says that it's because the site is COPPA compliant.

Whatever reason he gives us doesn't really matter.

You don't care if the people you do business with are honest or not?

And if you don't have third party analytics on his site, the numbers are whatever he tells you they are. MochiBot for example doesn't really add any dependencies.

The numbers on his site really only matter if he's giving performance bonuses and Daniel's far too good to developers to do anything funny there.

The numbers matter to the developer even if they're not getting paid by the impression. Being able to prove that your last game was played millions of times sure helps your next sponsorship, for example.

The dependency issue is bigger than mochibot, if he lets 3rd party services in then he's got to vet each one that appears and make sure they can't negatively impact the game, aren't collecting sensitive data etc. Then there'll be the homegrown leaderboards and whatever tied to $5 hosting accounts people really think are 'unlimited'.

He doesn't really get anything for doing it but he does risk his users experience if he does it wrong.

Well, MochiBot has been around longer than the domain armorgames.com has even existed (although he was running a portal prior to that, under another name), is in widespread use, and has no reason to be distrusted. We've been offering MochiBot as a public and free service for more than four years and haven't ever done anything sketchy with it. There aren't a lot of good reasons to disallow MochiBot. Random third party services, especially with user-facing functionality, are an entirely different (and understandable) matter. The original post was about MochiBot, not homegrown leaderboards.

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Beno
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago) edited 4 years 123 days ago

Costa Rica CR

Originally posted by bob You don't care if the people you do business with are honest or not?

It's not really about 'not caring', however flakey his reason is it's still final. Not a lot you can do about it really other than hope he changes his mind at some point. A lot of top-tier portals have less than great policies we all have to abide by - many require no ads, limited external links, won't allow microtx etc.

I'd love armor to allow analytics services particularly, a bunch of games on his site have gone up using mine outside of armor and it'd be nice to have unified numbers instead of "+ link to ag", but as arguments go that's not much stronger than the reasons not to allow it.

Have you guys ever talked to him about changing his mind?

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badim
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago)

Russian Federation RU

there is a big reason - Armor Games dont wanna share their stats with anyone. they keep they business for them self. and there is nothing to change their mind =)

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bob
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago)

United States US

It's really up to developers to pressure the top-tier portals into changing their minds. If enough good developers stop working with them due to their terms, or even better start charging them more (e.g. 20% more if they want it without third party analytics), then they will have no choice but to change their terms. They need the content.

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badim
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago)

Russian Federation RU

Originally posted by bob It's really up to developers to pressure the top-tier portals into changing their minds. If enough good developers stop working with them due to their terms, or even better start charging them more (e.g. 20% more if they want it without third party analytics), then they will have no choice but to change their terms. They need the content.

i think it not true about armor-games - they have in-house studios, and studios that works for them 100%.

and any developer will prefer 20% more money then having mochibot there... i think - at lest i`m =)

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bob
Dec 19, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago)

United States US

Originally posted by badim

Originally posted by bob It's really up to developers to pressure the top-tier portals into changing their minds. If enough good developers stop working with them due to their terms, or even better start charging them more (e.g. 20% more if they want it without third party analytics), then they will have no choice but to change their terms. They need the content.

i think it not true about armor-games - they have in-house studios, and studios that works for them 100%.

If they didn't need content from other developers then why would they be buying licenses in the first place?

and any developer will prefer 20% more money then having mochibot there... i think - at lest i`m =)

So raise your prices! :)

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undersiege
Dec 20, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago)

United Kingdom GB

I think it's good business for them to not share their stats. I mean if you could see how many plays your game had on their site, then you could work out potential earnings if you had your ads in there and then you would see how underpaid (or maybe overpaid) you were and maybe charge them more in future. The less info they give you about your games performance on their site, then the more power they have to dictate license fees.

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Ciry
Dec 20, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago) edited 4 years 123 days ago

United States US

Originally posted by undersiege

I think it's good business for them to not share their stats. I mean if you could see how many plays your game had on their site, then you could work out potential earnings if you had your ads in there and then you would see how underpaid (or maybe overpaid) you were and maybe charge them more in future. The less info they give you about your games performance on their site, then the more power they have to dictate license fees.

Which means it's horrible business for you.

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oscardog
Dec 20, 2009 (4 years 123 days ago)

United Kingdom GB

Originally posted by undersiege I think it's good business for them to not share their stats. I mean if you could see how many plays your game had on their site, then you could work out potential earnings if you had your ads in there and then you would see how underpaid (or maybe overpaid) you were and maybe charge them more in future. The less info they give you about your games performance on their site, then the more power they have to dictate license fees.

Which in turn is dishonest and hurting developers - why should they get underpaid by a portal?

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undersiege
Dec 20, 2009 (4 years 122 days ago)

United Kingdom GB

Yeah, that's true oscardog, but unfortunately the way business works is you have to get the best deal you can and this is how they ensure they get the best deal for themselves.

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jacksmack
Dec 20, 2009 (4 years 122 days ago) edited 4 years 121 days ago

Armor Games has built itself on the backs of developers and usually given them the short end of the stick. Remember when they were Games of Gondor and they had contest after contest and the prize was something like 2000 dollars?

They would get HUNDREDS of entries with links to their site in them for like 50 bucks a pop if the game was really good then pay only the winner. This practice really turned me off to most things about armor games. They can be helpful but that was just a rampant abuse of developers who built games for the love of it and wanted to try to make a little money when there was little to no monitization opportunities out there.

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Archbob1
Dec 20, 2009 (4 years 122 days ago)

Its almost standard in any industry not to share stats. Does Microsoft or Apple share all its customer demographics stats with its contractors?

Armor, newgrounds, and CMG all got big because they were first and the market had not evolved yet.

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Why Armor games not Allow MochiBot?

armorgames
Dec 20, 2009 (4 years 122 days ago)

@Bob

We don't allow Mochibot because it collects data by a 3rd party. I'm not a COPPA expert but I know we can get in trouble if we aren't careful so I'd rather error on the side of caution.

I'm not being dishonest If I'm misinformed about the law so I don't appreciate your accusations.

We wouldn't be around today if we were dishonest and ripped off developers. I encourage ANYONE reading this thread to go talk to the developers we work with and see what they say. :)

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xix
Dec 20, 2009 (4 years 122 days ago)

United Kingdom GB

Speaking as a mother I just want you to think of the children.

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bob
Dec 20, 2009 (4 years 122 days ago)

United States US

Originally posted by armorgames @Bob

We don't allow Mochibot because it collects data by a 3rd party. I'm not a COPPA expert but I know we can get in trouble if we aren't careful so I'd rather error on the side of caution.

I'm not being dishonest If I'm misinformed about the law so I don't appreciate your accusations.

Your terms of service states that children younger than 13 are not allowed to play. COPPA applies to kids under the age of 13.

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wm
Dec 20, 2009 (4 years 122 days ago) edited 4 years 122 days ago

United States US

Without meaning to side with armorgames (I have no idea what his intentions are), I think he is claiming that he wants to cover COPPA (or more accurately, avoid needing to) also in the case that there is some complex law issue that means that banning <13 year olds in the terms isn't adequate.

For example, I personally don't know if banning <13 year olds in the terms is adequate if they can navigate to a game with MochiBot in it before they hit the terms (I'm sure most visitors don't come in via the front page). I just don't know the law. It seems reasonable to me that armorgames would also not know this, and insist on playing it safe.

Other things that would scare me as a site owner: COPPA requires you to state exactly what information you collect from 13 year olds. I would hate to have to maintain that list if people could send out any information from their games.

The issue isn't the details of COPPA compliance, but a site administrator's grasp of them.

On the other hand, it also likely that any successful site would want to play their cards close to their chest. I wouldn't like to choose what to believe.

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sharkpie
Dec 20, 2009 (4 years 122 days ago)

We don't allow Mochibot because it collects data by a 3rd party.

So does every single advertising network, so what's the point?

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oscardog
Dec 21, 2009 (4 years 122 days ago)

United Kingdom GB

And also how come very few other sites hide behind this COPPA nonsense and seem to do just fine?

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noobesian
Dec 21, 2009 (4 years 121 days ago)

fat and ugly are those who speak,

to the strong and pure who's ideas are weak

because somone knows not what they do

is no reason to on them use kungfu

next time you chose to flame a site

think a bit about what you might

accomplish by it if nothing

then your flame is just flaming

actually i just made that up and have no idea if it applys to this situation or any other but it sounds cooliecool.

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jacksmack
Dec 21, 2009 (4 years 121 days ago) edited 4 years 121 days ago

I'm not meaning to flame armor games with my rant. It's a legitimate practice, but in hind site it sure does look like taking advantage of an undereducated mass of developers.

Nowadays would the same contest draw nearly the same amount of developers and would they agree to an exclusive sponsorship just to enter a contest with no guarantee of compensation?

I'm sure they are a quality sponsor if a sponsor is what you are looking for. Though I have heard that they frown on things like shopping around sequels to games that they have sponsored before giving them a shot to make the first bid. Which since they don't have rights to the game itself shouldn't be something that bothers them. I don't deal with many sponsors so I don't know if this is common practice or not.

They tried to clone MochiBot a few years ago... anyone remember ArmorBot.com? I guess since they couldn't get the system up and running and popular they canned it and don't allow other systems to be in their games. Which is odd for a company that tried to duplicate the very tech that they are not allowing in games now.

Either way AG has the right to turn down any game for any reason, perhaps they didn't like the game and saw the mochi ads and instead of saying they just didn't like the consept they gave you another reason that wouldn't have hurt your feelings as much as saying that your game wasn't what they are looking for.

Who knows. Anyway merry christmas and just in case anyone is wondering I don't hate Armor Games, I just wish I had had the capitol at the time to do the exact same thing as they did.

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Edward H
Dec 21, 2009 (4 years 121 days ago)

United States US

so how can armorgames detect if mochibot is in the game? it's not like it tells the player does it?

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ParaLogic
Dec 21, 2009 (4 years 121 days ago) edited 4 years 121 days ago

Netherlands NL

Bottom left of your browser will you show when the swf is connecting to mochibot. A post-catching add-on like tamper data will show you too.

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gamescore
Dec 21, 2009 (4 years 121 days ago)

New Zealand NZ

I don't have any problem whatsoever with Armor Games not allowing MochiBot in the games on their site. It is their choice to do so, they don't have to justify it to anyone, nor even need a reason to do it.

Originally posted by sharkpie

So does every single advertising network, so what's the point?

I don't use MochiBot, so I don't know what information it collects. But, I presume that 3rd party ad networks and 3rd party Analytics collect at least as much information if not more. Under the assumption that MochiBot might breach COPPA, obviously 3rd party ads and 3rd party analytics might too, and are arguably even more likely to breach it, given that my understanding is that they may collect even more information. On this basis, if you're choosing to disallow MochiBot due to COPPA, you should also disallow 3rd party ads and 3rd party analytics on the same basis. Additionally, nothing stops a site from doing ads and analytics completely in-house, so it is not like those cannot be avoided.


Originally posted by bob Your terms of service states that children younger than 13 are not allowed to play. COPPA applies to kids under the age of 13.

But their privacy policy says otherwise, although strictly this doesn't conflict since both are merely restrictions on what users can do.

If you are under the age of 13, you will need your parent or guardian's consent before you can provide any personal information to us for purposes of registration and other online activities.


In terms of COPPA, it states:

The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act and Rule apply to individually identifiable information about a child that is collected online, such as full name, home address, email address, telephone number or any other information that would allow someone to identify or contact the child. The Act and Rule also cover other types of information -- for example, hobbies, interests and information collected through cookies or other types of tracking mechanisms -- when they are tied to individually identifiable information.".

Like Armor Games, I am no legal expert and this might be completely wrong, and I too would err on the side of caution. But presumably, this means that only personally identifiable information is protected. So provided MochiBot doesn't collect things like name or address, which as far as I know, it doesn't, then COPPA doesn't apply. This would also seem to be why 3rd party advertising and Google Analytics is fine, as all of these are in no way connected to personally identifiable information.

In case you think the situation might be different with 3rd parties, again it only seems to be personally identifiable information.

An operator must give a parent the option to agree to the collection and use of the child's personal information without agreeing to the disclosure of the information to third parties. However, when a parent agrees to the collection and use of their child's personal information, the operator may release that information to others who uses it solely to provide support for the internal operations of the website or service, including technical support and order fulfillment."

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Lil' Games
Jan 12, 2010 (4 years 99 days ago)

Canada CA

gamescore, you're absolutely right. It's about PERSONAL information. Mochibot collects a few bits of computer information, not user information.

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Crazy Ninja
Jan 12, 2010 (4 years 99 days ago) edited 4 years 99 days ago

I think IP address is considered by COPPA to be a personally Identifiable bit of information. I am no expert but that is what I gathered from reading about what COPPA considers. Does Mochibot collect IP address? Does armorgames know all that Mochibot or any third party collects?

Not saying I would do the same thing but I can't say I blame them one bit for making a decision based on their interpretation of the law and playing it safe.

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gamescore
Jan 12, 2010 (4 years 99 days ago)

New Zealand NZ

From COPPA:

PERSONAL INFORMATION. The term "personal information" means individually identifiable information about an individual collected online.

An IP Address doesn't identify an individual.

In any event, 3rd party analytics do collect the IP Address and a lot more.

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Crazy Ninja
Jan 12, 2010 (4 years 99 days ago)

Originally posted by gamescore An IP Address doesn't identify an individual.

It kinda does if you work for the service provider :)

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inversecoma
Jan 12, 2010 (4 years 99 days ago)

United States US

If I wanted to contact a child I could just go to a elementary school and pocket one. I wouldn't use mochibot of all things to contact them for Christ's sake.

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npgames
Jan 12, 2010 (4 years 99 days ago)

United States US

why school, just go to a walmart and wait around, I almost always see a lost kid there

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egdcltd
Jan 13, 2010 (4 years 99 days ago)

United Kingdom GB

Welcome to the world of the Nanny State, where our Glorious Leaders are much better at running our lives than we are.

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gamescore
Jan 13, 2010 (4 years 98 days ago)

New Zealand NZ

Originally posted by Crazy Ninja

It kinda does if you work for the service provider :)

That's exactly my point, even the ISP isn't able to identify an individual from an IP address. They only know who is paying for the connection, not who is using it. They cannot even be sure the person who is paying for it is a member of the set of people using it, although they are more likely to be in that set than other people.

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Crazy Ninja
Jan 13, 2010 (4 years 98 days ago) edited 4 years 98 days ago

gamescore if armorgames and other people like myself are having trouble deciphering the law....I sure as heck don't want to leave it up to some boob in washington to tell me I did wrong........so I can see why armorgames would decide to do it the way they have...that's all. You are still trying to interpret what the law is saying and therein lies the problem that armor games has opted not to deal with.

From Coppa

The Act and Rule also cover other types of information -- for example, hobbies, interests and information collected through cookies or other types of tracking mechanisms -- when they are tied to individually identifiable information.

Who are we to know what Washington means by "information collected through cookies or other types of tracking mechanisms" and Armorgames certainly can't tell what a third party is doing in all cases with respect to the above. I still don't blame them one bit!

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Nick
Jan 13, 2010 (4 years 98 days ago)

United Kingdom GB

I think it's also to protect themselves in the future, if laws change or 3rd party services change. Having to republish games that you don't own the source of would be slighlty troublesome ^^

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raitendo
Jan 13, 2010 (4 years 98 days ago)

Originally posted by armorgames @Bob

We don't allow Mochibot because it collects data by a 3rd party. I'm not a COPPA expert but I know we can get in trouble if we aren't careful so I'd rather error on the side of caution.

Err...

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gamescore
Jan 13, 2010 (4 years 98 days ago)

New Zealand NZ

Originally posted by Crazy Ninja The Act and Rule also cover other types of information -- for example, hobbies, interests and information collected through cookies or other types of tracking mechanisms -- when they are tied to individually identifiable information.

Note that this is as quoted, only when linked with individually identifiable information.

gamescore if armorgames and other people like myself are having trouble deciphering the law....I sure as heck don't want to leave it up to some boob in washington to tell me I did wrong

The problem with this statement is that 3rd party analytics collect at least as much, if not much more information, and it is all sent off to a 3rd party. So if mochi's system is legally precarious due to this, what about 3rd party analytics? If you choose not to use mochi for this reason alone, shouldn't you also stop using 3rd party analytics? Also, what about 3rd party advertising?

My best guess is that they're not worried about changes to 3rd party analytics or 3rd party advertising, and those things are easy to spot and fix anyway, but are worried about changes to Mochi that might violate COPPA, and as such, they don't want the hassle of monitoring all the games. For example, hypothetically, if Mochi were to run a competition and start collecting information through games from players, that might hypothetically breach COPPA (or at least they might rightly be unsure if it does or not) and they don't want to then have to go to the trouble of finding and removing all the offending games.

I still don't blame them one bit!

I don't blame them one bit either.

Please don't interpret my comments as complaints about their actions - although others in this thread seemed to be complaining, I am not - as I stated in my first post in this thread, I have no problem with what they're doing, it is their site and they can do whatever they like.

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pcmccull
Jan 13, 2010 (4 years 98 days ago) edited 4 years 98 days ago

United States US

We don't allow Mochibot because it collects data by a 3rd party. I'm not a COPPA expert but I know we can get in trouble if we aren't careful so I'd rather error on the side of caution.

Their argument is that they cannot share data with 3rd parties right. Just on their homepage they connect to

  1. googleapis.com
  2. pubmatic.com
  3. advertising.com
  4. doubleclick.net
  5. quantserve.com
  6. googlesyndication.com
  7. 2mdn.net
  8. cpmstar.com
  9. adlegend.com
  10. atdmt.com
  11. harrahs.com
  12. casalemedia.com
  13. google-analytics.com

So how is sharing the number of times the game is played with mochibot.com any different. I'd have to agree with Bob's original conclusion that it is only because developers have allowed them to get away with it.

Why Armor games not Allow MochiBot?

raitendo
Jan 14, 2010 (4 years 97 days ago)

There are games on armorgames.com that have mochibot in them. Doeo, for example (they bought a non-exclusive but never asked me to remove anything).

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Tidous
Jan 14, 2010 (4 years 97 days ago)

Germany DE

I don't understand the Mochibot block, to me it doesn't seem to be logic. However, if one wants to get Mochibot in anyway simply build in a timelock like: before date of xx.xx Mochibot won't be used, but after it activates itself. I personally would only deactivate it if extra money is paid, since we also learn from our stats and how a game performs on different sites.

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gamescore
Jan 14, 2010 (4 years 97 days ago)

New Zealand NZ

I don't think you should be deceptive.

If a portal doesn't want to sponsor your game with MochiBot for whatever reason and you don't want to remove it, you should just look for another sponsor. You shouldn't use deception to trick them into sponsoring it, this wouldn't be good for your reputation.

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Lil' Games
Feb 01, 2010 (4 years 80 days ago)

Canada CA

They just dont want developers to have any idea of their traffic numbers. Its pretty obvious.

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Why Armor games not Allow MochiBot?

Squigly
Jul 01, 2013 (293 days 19 hours ago)

So the question I have is, are Mochi Games and their advertisers COPPA compliant?

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Why Armor games not Allow MochiBot?

wm
Jul 01, 2013 (293 days 19 hours ago)

United States US

There is no way that every game on Mochi is COPPA compliant. You should familiarise yourself with the nature of the service so you can see why this is the case. Mochi isn't a games producer.

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Why Armor games not Allow MochiBot?

Squigly
Jul 02, 2013 (292 days 22 hours ago)

I think any game that features a leaderboard would now not meet COPPA requirements or would make the publisher of a game with a leaderboard screen potential players to ensure that they are 13+ since the text field for the leaderboard allows kids to enter their name and other personally identifying information.

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Why Armor games not Allow MochiBot?

wm
Jul 02, 2013 (292 days 22 hours ago)

United States US

Consider that the games in the Mochi catalogue are made by thousands of different people with no restrictions on what they do with any data they collect from the player. There's absolutely no point in questioning the leaderboard component when the games can do whatever they like and are produced with no consistent privacy policy.

Why Armor games not Allow MochiBot?

petertos
Jul 03, 2013 (291 days 23 hours ago)

Spain ES

With all my respects to the ArmorGames site, I think it's a bad approach to forbid MochiAds on the site. There are few developers that will comply with that and they'll submit the game to ArmorGames to be placed without any actual income (except from a link to the developer site). I think that's a bad move on the long run; which developer is going to give for "free" a game to Armor? Some people say (their friends, with all my respects) that you can get a lot of exposure, but no money? I believe they are making money today, so they won't change their ways, but perhaps tomorrow will not be the same.

I remember the Mindjolt Facebook case: for years it was one of the bestest win/win programs with Mochi to submit a game to them, and their portal worked. Then someone bought it and spoiled it up. While they are making money it's ok for them; if I'm not making money then it's not Ok for me. So I don't submit games to ArmorGames, unless it's for the Sponsorship program.

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Why Armor games not Allow MochiBot?

wm
Jul 03, 2013 (291 days 22 hours ago)

United States US

Originally posted by petertos With all my respects to the ArmorGames site, I think it's a bad approach to forbid MochiAds on the site.

Not when your entire business model is based on keeping traffic captive and not directing to external sites easily.

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Why Armor games not Allow MochiBot?

petertos
Jul 03, 2013 (291 days 22 hours ago)

Spain ES

Originally posted by wm

Originally posted by petertos With all my respects to the ArmorGames site, I think it's a bad approach to forbid MochiAds on the site.

Not when your entire business model is based on keeping traffic captive and not directing to external sites easily.

I'm so glad it works for them; if it doesn't work for me, you won't see a game made by me on Armor, unless you don't see my brand (it's sponsored).

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